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Compusoft Winner Review (Initial Thoughts)
#19
(20-03-2016, 11:27 AM)andy5405 Wrote: I've had a play this weekend and I'm not sure if it is the right product at the moment. I hope I'm wrong but the way the catalogs are organised might not suit the market I'm in. I use one cabinet manufacturer combined with doors from several different manufacturers. Articad handles that well as the same cabinet can have doors from several different manufacturers.

In Compusoft Winner at the moment I have 3 catalogues available, which are PWS, Burbidge and their own generic catalogue Design1234. None of the other door manufacturers from the component market are available, so no TKC, Multiwood, Marpatt, Uform, Trade Mouldings etc. I was aware of this before I signed up but figured the 3 combined would be enough to cover most kitchens.

The problem is that each of the 3 catalogues I do have have a completely different set of cabinets (similar configs but completely different codes) attached to them so over time I will have to navigate through 3 completely different sets of cabinet product codes depending on which door I choose. 

I have the option of creating my own custom catalogue and that may overcome the problem but I've got a feeling that it will be limited to the doors from the catalogue it is based on and will still not have interchangeable doors between different door manufacturers. I can change catalogues part way through a design but it creates an alternative design with different cabinet product codes rather than updating the current design.

I'm going to ring support tomorrow and find out what can be done. I was aware that I was going to be limited to 3 catalogues as most of the others are permission based dependent on whether you have an account with a given manufacturer. Most of the catalogues are from manufacturers that will only deal with showrooms so they are of no use to me.

On top of that the PWS catalogue was last updated on May 13th 2015 and the Burbidge one on February 12th 2013.

Also there may have bit a bit of smoke and mirrors in the way the rendering capabilities were explained to me at the show. It will certainly not be anywhere near as fast as I was lead to believe regardless of what processor is used. Having used it for a while I have a far greater insight into how it was demonstrated at the show.

It is a great product from what I can see and is far more comprehensive than Articad but it may not suit how I work. Time will tell.

I'm new to the Forum but do have expertise in Winner, and when I browsed this section I had to join in.

I've tried loads of different Kitchen software and definitely prefer Winner due to its speed and usability on the presentation side. I've not really used it on the ordering side as the kitchen company I worked with had their own database of products. However, used solely as a sales and presentation tool the conversion rate of the designers went up with the real-time walk-throughs and more so with the jump to producing sets of photorealistic drawings in pdf before the clients arrived. These more than the VR walk-throughs as Winner doesnt ray trace the walk-throughs so less than convincing that you are standing in your future kitchen. However, the combination of the two is very compelling. 

As an Architect I'd used AutoCAD for decades but I still prefer Winner on balance when compared to say software based on the AutoCAD family for this type of 3D modelling. From 'fag-packet' sketch to a set of fully rendered photorealistic pdfs can be as quick as 30-40 mins for a simple, fully-dressed bedroom to about 2hrs for a large kitchen. Please note that this doesnt include actual render times which I usually do in the background as I'm working. Have a look at these examples I've done for a NE kitchen designer.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=14rU_t5...hHsQK2lCsu

I'd say 10-15mins per view/drawing to render with a mid-range PC spec with a graphics card. Double this duration if you don't have a card! As you can see, the results are almost indistinguishable from reality if you put the effort in to 'dressing' the spaces with accessories. To get the time down you do have to be inventive with the tools that Compusoft have provided.  Interestingly, after a few visits to their training centre I don't think they know what the programme is capable of, in terms of workflow, and how fast you can become if you adopt certain 'tricks'! 

Also, making your own catalogues isn't as hard as you might think* and if you investigate 're-purposing' say a PWS catalogue and hacking it a bit you can have your own bespoke catalogue with new cabinets not found in the PWS catalogue. 
*Compusoft tell you that you can make your own catalogues but the text only type, not the type of catalogue that you can insert 3d artifacts into your drawing! NOT true, as it's easy to tinker with! 
I've even managed to create a set of bespoke printout forms as the originals are just a set of coded up Word RTF files!

If you rake around a bit and know a bit about paths and the registry you can even save the whole of your project and export folder to the cloud for free and move from home to office without having to mess about with export and import or pen drives! You can finish on your work PC and when you arrive at the other (or any PC with a copy of winner and a similar set up) you can simply continue. 

I'm hoping that the above helps users with Winner realise that it has more to offer than even Compusoft let on (maybe as they can compile you a bespoke catalogue for £1000s, they can give you cloud for £120/yr etc) and also to how far you can push the rendering side of things and how quickly you can achieve this if you use your head and think outside the box.  

That's all I've got for now!

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#20
(03-04-2018, 02:58 PM)Gariloki Wrote: I'm new to the Forum but do have expertise in Winner, and when I browsed this section I had to join in.

I've tried loads of different Kitchen software and definitely prefer Winner due to its speed and usability on the presentation side. I've not really used it on the ordering side as the kitchen company I worked with had their own database of products. However, used solely as a sales and presentation tool the conversion rate of the designers went up with the real-time walk-throughs and more so with the jump to producing sets of photorealistic drawings in pdf before the clients arrived. These more than the VR walk-throughs as Winner doesnt ray trace the walk-throughs so less than convincing that you are standing in your future kitchen. However, the combination of the two is very compelling. 

As an Architect I'd used AutoCAD for decades but I still prefer Winner on balance when compared to say software based on the AutoCAD family for this type of 3D modelling. From 'fag-packet' sketch to a set of fully rendered photorealistic pdfs can be as quick as 30-40 mins for a simple, fully-dressed bedroom to about 2hrs for a large kitchen. Please note that this doesnt include actual render times which I usually do in the background as I'm working. Have a look at these examples I've done for a NE kitchen designer.


I'd say 10-15mins per view/drawing to render with a mid-range PC spec with a graphics card. Double this duration if you don't have a card! As you can see, the results are almost indistinguishable from reality if you put the effort in to 'dressing' the spaces with accessories. To get the time down you do have to be inventive with the tools that Compusoft have provided.  Interestingly, after a few visits to their training centre I don't think they know what the programme is capable of, in terms of workflow, and how fast you can become if you adopt certain 'tricks'! 

Also, making your own catalogues isn't as hard as you might think* and if you investigate 're-purposing' say a PWS catalogue and hacking it a bit you can have your own bespoke catalogue with new cabinets not found in the PWS catalogue. 
*Compusoft tell you that you can make your own catalogues but the text only type, not the type of catalogue that you can insert 3d artifacts into your drawing! NOT true, as it's easy to tinker with! 
I've even managed to create a set of bespoke printout forms as the originals are just a set of coded up Word RTF files!

If you rake around a bit and know a bit about paths and the registry you can even save the whole of your project and export folder to the cloud for free and move from home to office without having to mess about with export and import or pen drives! You can finish on your work PC and when you arrive at the other (or any PC with a copy of winner and a similar set up) you can simply continue. 

I'm hoping that the above helps users with Winner realise that it has more to offer than even Compusoft let on (maybe as they can compile you a bespoke catalogue for £1000s, they can give you cloud for £120/yr etc) and also to how far you can push the rendering side of things and how quickly you can achieve this if you use your head and think outside the box.  

That's all I've got for now!

Thanks for sharing and welcome...
I have been using the RedSDK Render Engine for many years now which is used in ArtiCAD and TurboCAD. One thing I would like to know about Winner, can you keep the Tone mapping controls fixed when rendering?
Tone mapping is an important step to get the best out of RedSDK and I recently found out that Winner uses this render engine too. We have to adjust this especially when the Sun and lights are used otherwise the renders come out a bit dark. Increasing the lighting brightness often leads to darker images as this is due to the tone mapping clamping the brightest pixel and the darkest.

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#21
(04-04-2018, 11:28 PM)Daz Gizmo Wrote:
(03-04-2018, 02:58 PM)Gariloki Wrote: I'm new to the Forum but do have expertise in Winner, and when I browsed this section I had to join in.

I've tried loads of different Kitchen software and definitely prefer Winner due to its speed and usability on the presentation side. I've not really used it on the ordering side as the kitchen company I worked with had their own database of products. However, used solely as a sales and presentation tool the conversion rate of the designers went up with the real-time walk-throughs and more so with the jump to producing sets of photorealistic drawings in pdf before the clients arrived. These more than the VR walk-throughs as Winner doesnt ray trace the walk-throughs so less than convincing that you are standing in your future kitchen. However, the combination of the two is very compelling. 

As an Architect I'd used AutoCAD for decades but I still prefer Winner on balance when compared to say software based on the AutoCAD family for this type of 3D modelling. From 'fag-packet' sketch to a set of fully rendered photorealistic pdfs can be as quick as 30-40 mins for a simple, fully-dressed bedroom to about 2hrs for a large kitchen. Please note that this doesnt include actual render times which I usually do in the background as I'm working. Have a look at these examples I've done for a NE kitchen designer.


I'd say 10-15mins per view/drawing to render with a mid-range PC spec with a graphics card. Double this duration if you don't have a card! As you can see, the results are almost indistinguishable from reality if you put the effort in to 'dressing' the spaces with accessories. To get the time down you do have to be inventive with the tools that Compusoft have provided.  Interestingly, after a few visits to their training centre I don't think they know what the programme is capable of, in terms of workflow, and how fast you can become if you adopt certain 'tricks'! 

Also, making your own catalogues isn't as hard as you might think* and if you investigate 're-purposing' say a PWS catalogue and hacking it a bit you can have your own bespoke catalogue with new cabinets not found in the PWS catalogue. 
*Compusoft tell you that you can make your own catalogues but the text only type, not the type of catalogue that you can insert 3d artifacts into your drawing! NOT true, as it's easy to tinker with! 
I've even managed to create a set of bespoke printout forms as the originals are just a set of coded up Word RTF files!

If you rake around a bit and know a bit about paths and the registry you can even save the whole of your project and export folder to the cloud for free and move from home to office without having to mess about with export and import or pen drives! You can finish on your work PC and when you arrive at the other (or any PC with a copy of winner and a similar set up) you can simply continue. 

I'm hoping that the above helps users with Winner realise that it has more to offer than even Compusoft let on (maybe as they can compile you a bespoke catalogue for £1000s, they can give you cloud for £120/yr etc) and also to how far you can push the rendering side of things and how quickly you can achieve this if you use your head and think outside the box.  

That's all I've got for now!

Thanks for sharing and welcome...
I have been using the RedSDK Render Engine for many years now which is used in ArtiCAD and TurboCAD. One thing I would like to know about Winner, can you keep the Tone mapping controls fixed when rendering?
Tone mapping is an important step to get the best out of RedSDK and I recently found out that Winner uses this render engine too. We have to adjust this especially when the Sun and lights are used otherwise the renders come out a bit dark. Increasing the lighting brightness often leads to darker images as this is due to the tone mapping clamping the brightest pixel and the darkest.
I’m afraid it’s pretty much the same in Winner. I often have to play with settings to control the light when doing photorealistic shots. However once set I can usually go ahead and take all the shots for the project without issue. Winner does let you save as many custom settings for the lighting as you can be bothered to make. Hope this helps.

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